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Avenues for XP - "Daily Routines"

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Avenues for XP - "Daily Routines"

Post  Judas Iscariot on Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:18 am

Awhile ago one of our members came up with an interesting idea for XP that I'd like to float past those of you keeping an eye on our development. Credit goes to Thebigkabooa for coming up with this idea.

thebigkabooa wrote:Instead of automatically allotting bonus EXP, players go through a daily "routine" which earns them both Roleplay EXP and Bonus EXP to apply to hunting.

Why?  It represents the character doing their daily tasks that most players are happy to do in the background, but it also gathers like minded characters in the same area, fosters additional roleplay, and perhaps even camaraderie.

So for example, a script would either automatically assign characters an archetype, or players are given a token through dialogue or a DM.  Archetype determines what is available for them to do their routines.

Routines would refresh upon server resets.

ROUTINE ARCHETYPE EXAMPLES:
"Warrior" - Fighter, Barbarian, Swashbuckler, Paladin
-Practice dummies.
-Weapon and armor maintenance
-Instruction from the Armsmaster

"Priest" - Cleric, Paladin
-Pray to Diety
-Heal the sick / make sacrifices
-Pay a Tithe

"Tricksters" - Rogue, Scout, Bards
-Con games
-Tale telling
-Pickpocketing
-Shoplifting

"Mages" - Wizards, Sorcerors, Warlocks
-Studying
-Practice dummies.  Zap!
-Scribing
-Convene with Pact-bound Fiend (WARLOCK ONLY.)

Completing routines will grant players their bonus EXP, some exp aside that, and put players in similar areas outside the taverns.

They provide quieter characters an option to earn experience and put them in a place they would be more suited to conversing with others.

Discuss.
These "routines" (which really are just like small repeatable quests) are up for being changed or added to. Also, try not to be put off by the name "daily routine" because that totally sounds like work. Its meant to be fun, and entirely optional. Smile

The difficulty is in defining what archetype a character is and assigning him or her to a specific routine. It would also be possible, theoretically, for a character to qualify for two (gishes would be both a warrior type and a mage type) but I'm not keen on giving some characters double the opportunity for XP while others only get one.

There are also these concerns raised by our resident Grumpy Cat:

Grumpy Cat wrote:One flaw I see with the token system presented as-is in the first topic, is it's very confining.
For instance, the cleric token? Uh, what priest of Shar is going to want to go around doing that stuff openly? I guess if they have their own secret temple to pray in?

What if your rogue isn't a thief?

Warlocks don't all/always "convene" with their pacter. Etc, etc.

What this does is pidgeonhole classes into "this is what your char does on a daily basis, no matter if that's how you play them". What about multi-classers, too?
What if you're playing a warlock who's a con man or a thief, and you take the appropriate skills for it? But you're stuck with other tasks instead?

I'd much rather a system where you pick a token. And if someone misses it their first day? Oh no, it's a whole day of not having their token. Servers with daily quests miss their quests when they're new too, 'cause they don't know everything or don't take the time to read. It's not world-ending if they don't realize for a couple days they can pick tokens for 'daily' activities. Make a pop up when they log in for the first time or something if you want. Or make it so you cannot enter the game world without a token if you're that worried about it.
So, our interested followers, what do y'all think? Dev discussion on this hasn't gone any further than "hey, maybe we could do this" so I want to see if this is something players would be interested in.

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Re: Avenues for XP - "Daily Routines"

Post  FrankHullenbeck on Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:46 am

I really like the idea, though I do agree that there would be some pigeonholing. I know I was planning to make my character plenty similar to the one on DB, so he'd be 'classless' in terms of motivations and daily tasks.

What about changing the categories from class to stat points instead (or as an option added to the above)? Have characters improving their bodies and minds rather than exercise their class.

STR:
Weight lifting
Training dummies

DEX:
Gymnastics
Juggling

CON:
Swimming
Running

WIS:
Mentoring/Advice by an older NPC?
Prayer

INT:
Reading/Research
Puzzles

CHA:
Speech practice
Body language training


...Obviously those are just tossed out off the top of my head, but you would maybe get a more broad grouping like that. Warriors aren't always tough, so the dextrous fighters would hang with the tough guys at the gym, but they'd be doing cardio instead of weights. Some of those warriors are INT-based, so having a library that isn't entirely arcane would allow any intelligence-based characters to hang out and complete tasks. Classes like the sorcerer who just improve themselves could maybe go to that library to improve their lore, but sometimes they'd want to better themselves with a trip to a salon.

But I do like the idea of class-specific or skill-specific tasks as well, though. And making them daily and limited in the number a PC can do would solve the problem of some characters getting more. If it's all stat-based, it doesn't matter where they go for a task, since there would be multiple ones for each.

Very Happy

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Re: Avenues for XP - "Daily Routines"

Post  Judas Iscariot on Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:19 am

FrankHullenbeck wrote:What about changing the categories from class to stat points instead (or as an option added to the above)? Have characters improving their bodies and minds rather than exercise their class.
Now this is a nifty idea, and I kinda like it. Should there be a minimum required amount of said stat before you can do any tasks related to it, or are all of them open to all players, I wonder?

No minimum means that all players have all of the tasks/quests/whatever available to them, even if it doesn't really make sense (flimsy-armed wizard weight lifting, what?). Too high, then some characters miss the mark on something that would maybe make sense for their character (especially with the case of characters that spread out points between two or more stats).

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Re: Avenues for XP - "Daily Routines"

Post  FrankHullenbeck on Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:29 pm

Good question! I'd say that you have to start with flimsy arms before you can get the buff, ripped ones, so a wimpy mage who plans to be a gish later may begin working out ICly, just on the light weights at first.

For that example, if you were to allocate them by point ranges, you could have a few weight benches: the first has 10lbs, the next 25, 50, 100, or whatever seems sensible. Each weight bench would have a minimum STR for use. They could provide increasingly more XP as characters improve, so the warriors who have high enough strength get more return as they level up and put points into STR.

It'd actually be neat to see wizards in the weight room, just to show that some of them care about their health and stuff. They all can jog forever mechanically, so one or two who reflect that by getting a morning run as part of a daily habit would be refreshing and help break cliches.

So... I'd say there should be a minimum, but that those are tiered in the areas. Gotta crawl before you sprint. Very Happy
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Re: Avenues for XP - "Daily Routines"

Post  Judas Iscariot on Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:04 am

Yes! I'm really liking this idea. Its just plain fun. I'm giving our scripters a poke to make sure they see this thread so we can put our heads together and figure out the best way mechanically to put this in, while coming up the IC actions as well.

(Our scripters are totally going to hate me for coming up with even more stuff for them to do, but tough luck XD)

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Re: Avenues for XP - "Daily Routines"

Post  SarwyckGreystone on Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:53 am

I have to say I highly enjoy this idea. I would even go as far as to say maybe incorporating the persons' skills, such as "Craft Alchemy or Craft Weapon." If it was at all possible and it might be a bit more difficult. Though I'd like the idea of making these "daily" quests as of sorts actually worth it. Routines x Time + Grinding = Good Exp as opposed to Grinding - Routines x Time = Great Exp.

Personally I don't like the idea of a "RP EXP" bonus to kills and such but I can live with it.

However this idea is pretty darn solid. I approve.

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Re: Avenues for XP - "Daily Routines"

Post  Judas Iscariot on Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:20 am

I should also preface this by noting that all of this will only work if A) our scripters come up with a way to implement this, or alternatively B) I can put something basic in as a normal but repeatable quest with the toolset's quest-creator-thingy (whatever its called). I have the scripting skills of a bamboo-less panda so everything I have here is just speculation and possibilities.

As for a reward for this kind of thing, since it is repeatable it would have to be on the smaller side. Maybe 500xp the first time you do it (a little extra for just finding out about it) and 250xp everytime thereafter. There could be some variety - some of these would reset every 24 hours, and some would reset perhaps every 48 or more hours - with xp scaled accordingly.

If it gives any RP XP bonus, it would act as a % bonus to XP earned while RPing, not while killing (IMO anyways).

The reward amount would be small because it is both simple and it would not be time consuming. The idea behind it was to give similar characters an opportunity to bump into each other and have something to RP/talk about IC. I believe we started this discussion out in Skype at the very beginning with the question "Why do very few clerics RP their daily prayers, and very few wizards RP studying their books?" (aside from wandering off and going AFK for 5 minutes and using the aforementioned as their IC excuse/cover). We came to the conclusion its because there is little to no RP incentive to do something that might actually be boring or isolating. This is meant to be a counter to that sort of thing - but we're still keeping it short and simple so it doesn't become a boring hassle. If that makes any sense.

Personally I'd love it if our scripters to give me some sort of template that I could re-use for multiple stats, skills, feats, classes, etc. I'd come up with all kinds of little things to do. *cough*hint*cough*Iknowyouguysreadthis*cough*

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Re: Avenues for XP - "Daily Routines"

Post  FrankHullenbeck on Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:45 am

Judas Iscariot wrote:...the very beginning with the question "Why do very few clerics RP their daily prayers, and very few wizards RP studying their books?" (aside from wandering off and going AFK for 5 minutes and using the aforementioned as their IC excuse/cover).
Yeah! That always bugged me. People reading at the busiest, nosiest and most distracting places there are just because it's the RP hub. I've never seen someone crack open a Calculus book at a bonfire and cram for a test. Rolling Eyes 

I love the idea of people rubbing shoulders at various areas. If the XP gain is quick, though, will that be likely? I'd worry about people just sprinting in, clicking a book, then sprinting out. Maybe it could require some time in an area, sort of like 'rested XP' in MMOs gained from time in taverns? (And, meanwhile, I'm not against tavern bonuses if only to get people IN them, rather than 10 feet away, outside, just for a campfire.)
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Re: Avenues for XP - "Daily Routines"

Post  Blood Moth on Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:02 pm

I am much behind what Grumpy Cat wrote. I deeply dislike this system, or anything like it really. Frankly, there just isn't a reason for it. Characters shouldn't be pigeonholed into a certain type of RP. And this system doesn't even describe RP. It describes a completely non-interactive process that requires no thought (especially after the first few times.)

If you want bonus xp to stem from RP, then just have your bonus xp pool equal your RP xp gained for the interval. This game is grindy enough as it is. I cannot fathom why you would want to implement an even less interesting grind.

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Re: Avenues for XP - "Daily Routines"

Post  Judas Iscariot on Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:22 am

Blood Moth wrote:I am much behind what Grumpy Cat wrote. I deeply dislike this system, or anything like it really. Frankly, there just isn't a reason for it. Characters shouldn't be pigeonholed into a certain type of RP. And this system doesn't even describe RP. It describes a completely non-interactive process that requires no thought (especially after the first few times.)

If you want bonus xp to stem from RP, then just have your bonus xp pool equal your RP xp gained for the interval. This game is grindy enough as it is. I cannot fathom why you would want to implement an even less interesting grind.
The point of this idea was to draw similarly-minded characters together to do something that created or resulted in RP, especially on a topic or theme that players do not frequently get around to doing. I considered it an alternative to the standard tavern RP which some players find bland (there is only so much gossiping and chit-chat an adventurer can take). Granting a small bit of XP and/or possibly some form of bonus XP pool (if we have such a system) is merely the OOC lure to entice people to try something other than tavern/campfire RP. Additionally, it was an opportunity to satisfy some people's desires for quests - it could be far more involved than simply running into a building, clicking an object, and running out.

I don't want to pigeon-hole anyone into an archetype or theme that doesn't fit them, but I do admit that this kind of idea is much easier for some classes/character types than for others. Clerics are an easy one - draw them to their temples to pray, for a change, when most servers have temples that are empty except for when someone needs a raise. Wizards are another easy one: some time to study their spellbooks or a tome (content completely up to the player), in a peaceful and quiet place - not plopping down at a bar counter or a fireplace bench, in the noisiest place in the city.  Both of these are quite ease since every cleric has to pray for spells, and every wizard has to study.

When it comes to basically every other class, I'm kind of stuck. Most other ideas seem cheesy (okay, weight lifting is one of these, its not my favorite idea) or risk becoming far too confining (stealing for a rogue that isn't a thief? no thanks), but I wanted to make this something open and available to everyone, regardless of class. But.... if I put this in just for clerics and wizards, players of every other class will cry favoritism/unbalance/etc, and we know the rap that clerics and wizards have from other servers.

Perhaps if every character got some little reward for praying to their deity, as a 1/day repeatable quest? Open to all, regardless of class, they'd just have to be anything other than faithless.

tl:dr version: This is supposed to be just another method of drawing people together for RP and rewarding them for it. Its not flawless.

I accept suggestions, as well. Smile And sorry for the late reply. Time flies.

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Re: Avenues for XP - "Daily Routines"

Post  Tildryn on Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:05 pm

This unfortunately suffers from drastic feature creep, and I don't think would give enough back for the amount of effort it would take to implement.

It also has a few practical flaws that would prevent it from achieving its stated goals: Namely, that people would almost certainly not be in the location to do the RP with others who also are doing the tasks, at the same time, if the 'ticker' reactivated on each person at a different time for each character (cooldown based). Conversely, if it were implemented with a universal ticker (everyone can repeat at the same time each day), it would merely result in everyone going there, doing whatever they need to do, then leaving. It would become very artificial and a joke very quickly.

A nice idea in theory, but impractical and fails the KISS test.

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Re: Avenues for XP - "Daily Routines"

Post  Judas Iscariot on Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:50 pm

Yeah, lets flush this idea, for all reasons posted above. Re-reading it now I'm just.. meh. We have better things to do with our time.

Like create rooms full of rugs.  Razz 

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